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Agenda

- Confluence progress
- Build Tools
- UML Modeling
- Debugging and Analysis
- Automated Testing
- Source mirroring
- AOB
paulsherwood== GENIVI Tools Team Meeting Starts ==13:00
paulsherwoodhi folks...13:00
gunnarxhi13:00
paulsherwoodproposed agenda is here https://genivi-oss.atlassian.net/wiki/display/TOOL/TT-minutes-2015092113:00
paulsherwoodanyone have additions?13:00
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paulsherwoodi guess we could discuss whether folks preferred the return to telephone last week :)13:01
gunnarxsource mirroring?  :)13:01
paulsherwoodcan add that, ok13:01
paulsherwoodanything else?13:01
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gunnarxMore generally, is CIAT topic no longer a topic?13:01
paulsherwoodi woud do it under automated testing13:02
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paulsherwoodthe agenda items are taken from the charter13:02
paulsherwood(well most of them)13:02
gunnarxok, let's do that13:02
paulsherwoodok...13:02
paulsherwood= Confluence Progress =13:03
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* paulsherwood notices joel is not here13:03
paulsherwoodany other progress to report on this?13:03
paulsherwoodi see some pages being updated13:03
paulsherwoodwell https://genivi-oss.atlassian.net/wiki/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=278541613:04
paulsherwoodin general i'll take silence as a justification to move onto next topic? :)13:04
paulsherwoodi wonder if it's only you and me today, gunnarx13:05
* steve_l waves13:05
pavelkany updates on by when a stable url will be available?13:05
klausbirkenI am here, too. Just silent.13:05
* waltminer is here13:05
paulsherwoodwelcome all :-)13:05
* Bjoern_ is, too.13:05
gunnarxmaybe a roll call is a good idea13:05
paulsherwoodpavelk: last i heard is there would be a further report at tomorrow's pmo13:05
* paulsherwood takes note to do rollcall in future13:06
paulsherwoodany other comments on confluence?13:06
steve_lits getting nearer to the top of my todo list13:06
paulsherwood:-)13:06
gunnarxno, same as before.  Everyone can fill in content, but not rely on the URL.  For me those are independent things but others think differently.13:06
pavelkgunnarx: "/who #channel"13:07
paulsherwoodwell, i'm using it, won't be returning to mediawiki13:07
paulsherwoodpavelk: that doesn't necessarily mean much :)13:07
gunnarxpavelk, I'm not sure that's what we mean by attendees :)13:07
pavelkpaulsherwood: meaning of data is a tricky business13:07
paulsherwoodfor example jeremiah expressly noted he can't attend13:08
gunnarxpavelk, maybe it was a joke?13:08
paulsherwoodanyways... shall we move on?13:08
pavelkgunnarx: no, I am dead serious :-)13:08
steve_laye13:08
gunnarxHe uses a bouncer I bet13:08
gunnarx+1 move on13:08
paulsherwood= Build Tools =13:08
paulsherwoodsteve_l: was there some movement on the generated code topic in bit last week?13:09
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steve_lno13:09
paulsherwoodok13:09
steve_lno substantive input on topic from baseline maintainers13:09
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steve_lso seems on hold until their is external input13:10
paulsherwoodack13:10
paulsherwoodany other comments wrt build tools?13:10
* paulsherwood notes, as an aside, that we decided to use jira , but doesn't think we've actually started to do so yet13:11
gunnarxpaulsherwood, is the plan to transfer the trello cards then?13:11
paulsherwoodwe could do that. i guess that's an action on me :)13:12
paulsherwoodACTION: PS transfer trello cards to Jira13:12
paulsherwoodanything on build tools? or move on?13:12
paulsherwood= UML Modeling =13:13
* paulsherwood hands over to UML experts for this....13:14
* paulsherwood notices that silences are less likely on the phonecalls13:15
klausbirkenNothing new on UML from my side...13:15
klausbirkenMaybe Bjoern?13:15
Manfred_sorry guys - first day after holiday13:15
gunnarxNot sure if we have any identified open topic in this area?13:15
gunnarxYou said you had just taken the agenda from the tools charter (which is a list of _potential_ topics I presume?)13:15
klausbirkenHowever, some news on Franca: Trademarks issues are resolved now - Franca could move on to eclipse.org.13:15
paulsherwoodklausbirken: w00t! :)13:15
Manfred_have some news about about Franca validation - the OSS approval for my patches are under way13:16
klausbirkenI am currently reading a lot of documents… to prepare the migration.13:16
pavelkwhich means that all links will have to move ... again?13:16
* gunnarx notices silence is broken13:16
Manfred_great new Klaus13:16
paulsherwoodgunnarx: correct. however if the charter items were not generating any discussion in general, i would wonder if we consider modifying the charter13:16
klausbirkenpavelk: Probably not all links, I try to keep the repos on github.13:16
gunnarxpaulsherwood, the charter is like a constitution.  It can be modified, but only after a long mismatch.  :)13:17
paulsherwoodgunnarx: ack13:17
klausbirkenBut we have to expect that many links will change…esp. package names etc. will have to be changed org.franca.* => org.eclipse.franca.* :-(13:17
pavelkpaulsherwood: charter is about the scope; active projects come and go13:17
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paulsherwoodpavelk: ack, also :)13:17
gunnarxManfred_, what's in the pipe, can you share?13:17
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pavelkklausbirken: or dear...13:17
Manfred_Klaus: any time plan for the migration13:18
pavelkcorrection: "s/or/oh/"13:18
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gunnarxManfred_: what are your patches related to?13:19
klausbirkenpavelk: But this should be doable with a full-text-search-and-replace tool…13:19
gunnarxsed :)13:19
paulsherwoodklausbirken: i hope you have a smoother process than the confluence migration :)13:19
pavelkklausbirken: well, I don't have much to find and replace yet, ;-), but I am will have soon13:19
paulsherwoodok, any more on UML, or shall we move forward?13:20
klausbirkenNothing more from my side.13:20
paulsherwoodthanks13:20
paulsherwood= Debugging and Analysis =13:20
Manfred_gunnar: I´ve done some corrections to the original FrancaValidator Jscripts for Enterprise Architect i can share with that approval. Those patches lead me to a completely new approach which covers new validation use cases. The new approach can go OSS after the approval got signed too.13:21
gunnarxOK, thanks13:21
paulsherwoodManfred_: cool! :)13:21
Manfred_klaus: any time plan for the migration to eclipse? this year or next year?13:21
paulsherwoodfwiw i can't remember if we've ever had any discussion about debugging and analysis so far?13:22
klausbirkenManfred_: Definitely this year. But no detailed plans yet.13:22
paulsherwoodthis seems like the lost topic of TT13:22
paulsherwoodi do note in passing that there's been some work to integrate wayland debugging into GDP13:23
paulsherwoodCTtpollard: ^?13:23
pavelkpaulsherwood: we had touched upoin this last week with Andreas Warnke mentioning the possibility for Elektrobit to share their tool13:23
gunnarxDebug & Analysis, it's basically part of the expectations on a shared dev environment / SDK13:23
Bjoern_sorry guys, I guess irc just doesn't work for me very well. But I don't have any open topics about UML atm.13:23
paulsherwoodBjoern_: fair enough. i think you are not alone. maybe in general the participants here prefer phone13:24
CTtpollardwe have been working with wayland debug and gdp yes13:24
gunnarxCTtpollard, quick summary?13:24
Manfred_well UML seems a quite graphical topic to me13:24
paulsherwoodi'd be happy to do phone and log on irc (as last week) but if i'm actually discussing in a phone call i find it difficult to type much13:24
paulsherwood(as demonstrated by last week's minutes)13:25
paulsherwoodmaybe CTtpollard can comment later13:26
paulsherwoodany more on debugging and analysis?13:26
CTtpollardgunnarx: I'm trying to provide a fix for initial app freezing issues between hmi-controller & ivi-extension13:26
CTtpollardsorry I got pulled aside then13:27
gunnarxCTtpollard. Understood, and in that process you are improving debugability / tools also?13:27
gunnarxor did I misunderstand...13:27
paulsherwoodCTtpollard: iiuc you've added recipe for wayland debug?13:28
CTtpollardgunnarx: I've managed to get wayland_debug integrated, which can be helpful13:28
paulsherwoodmaybe that would be useful for other gdp users13:28
gunnarxok, got it13:28
CTtpollardpaulsherwood: yes I have a buildable gdp system that has wayland debug tool added to it, it's not from upstream but could be useful13:29
paulsherwoodwell, you're the maintainer... so you decide :-)13:30
paulsherwoodi propose to move on13:30
CTtpollardI would add it to poky, if anything13:30
CTtpollardbut yes13:30
paulsherwood= Automated Testing =13:30
paulsherwoodgunnarx: source mirroring? iirc the previous upshot was you and/or jeremiah would look into yocto upstream approach on this?13:31
paulsherwoodin other news, i notice that AGL has its jenkins live now... https://build.automotivelinux.org13:33
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paulsherwoodand there has been some discussion about automated testing on AGL lists13:34
* steve_l wonders how they are dealing with the gfx. Maybe its private to the CI.13:34
paulsherwoodsteve_l: nothing for that yet, iiuc13:35
paulsherwoodwaltminer: will all CI be public for AGL?13:35
steve_lthat would be a solution :)13:35
gunnarxpaulsherwood, sorry got distracted13:35
paulsherwoodnp13:35
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gunnarxYes iirc jeremiah had an action to check with upstream.  In the meantime I have made investigations on my own.  I think I'm ready to post a message to ask about the fetch bug mentioned before the meeting started.13:36
gunnarxs/upstream/The Yocto Project/13:37
Bjoern_soryr guys, have to leave now.13:37
Bjoern_bye13:37
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paulsherwoodBjoern_: bye for now :)13:37
paulsherwoodgunnarx: ok, so no recommendations yet?13:37
gunnarxAny experience from AGL setup so far?13:38
gunnarxIs it Jenkins only or also Gerrit?13:38
paulsherwoodJenkins + Gerrit13:39
gunnarxI'm curious primarily on Gerrit experiences.  Some are/were negative to Gerrit...13:39
gunnarxin terms of usability.13:39
steve_lgunnar: I've learnt to be somewhat careful about the wiki. Some it is crusty, so I think an email would be the right approach13:39
paulsherwoodit's some friction to get started (ie as a new user, need to get permissions etc, and ui is complex)13:40
gunnarxsteve_l, don't get the context of your response.  Gerrit?  An email for what, patches?13:40
paulsherwoodbut once the initial pain is over it works13:40
gunnarxwhat wiki?13:40
paulsherwoodgunnarx: i think he means yocto13:40
steve_lyep13:41
* gunnarx is completely confused now13:41
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paulsherwoodeg https://gerrit.automotivelinux.org/gerrit/#/c/4065/ jenkins has built and given a +113:41
gunnarxah, ok you were referring far back.  I get it now.13:41
paulsherwoodgunnarx: he's suggesting how to approach yocto upstream13:41
* steve_l withdraws until current sub-topic (Gerrit) is finished13:42
gunnarxGerrit UI really is not that nice...13:42
gunnarxBut it sure beats having nothing13:42
paulsherwoodgunnarx: there are commmand line tools which allow folks to ignore the ui apparently13:43
gunnarxpaulsherwood, have you continued to promote combined AGL/GENIVI infra in this area?13:43
paulsherwoodfor better or worse i think gerrit is the only game in town for code review in this context13:43
gunnarxno that's not right13:43
paulsherwoodok... how else would you propose to integrate code review into ci, gunnarx ? (foss...)/13:44
gunnarxis gerrit superior to all alternatives, or you think there are no alternatives?13:44
paulsherwoodi think there are no credible alternatives, but i can always be wrong13:44
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paulsherwood(point being, gerrit handles creation of candidates to push through ci, so you can do pre-merge testing)13:46
gunnarxphabricator, gitlab, atlassian-whatever-it's-called,13:46
gunnarxok atlassian maybe not foss13:46
gunnarxI thought we have had this discussion already.  Let's structure this.  Are we trying to reach TT consensus on what are good alternatives?13:46
gunnarxpaulsherwood, yes, that workflow support is good from gerrit13:46
paulsherwoodiiuc the other alternatives are post-merge13:46
gunnarxok, I have not checked that13:46
KlausUhlWhat would be the alternatives to Gerrit?13:47
KlausUhlSorry, I have missed the line above.13:47
paulsherwoodgunnarx: 'Are we trying to reach TT consensus on what are good alternatives?' - i think so, but i don't know how to achieve it13:48
gunnarxEither timebox the discussion and we have it now, here on this meeting13:48
gunnarxor assign action to analyze and come back with a report13:48
paulsherwoodwhich is preferred?13:48
gunnarxyou're leading the meeting13:49
paulsherwoodyes, i suppose i am13:49
gunnarx:)13:50
paulsherwoodi'll write to the list with my preliminary thoughts, seek feedback on that13:50
gunnarxgood start13:50
paulsherwoodACTION: PS write on code review options for CI13:50
paulsherwood14:43 < gunnarx> paulsherwood, have you continued to promote combined AGL/GENIVI infra in this area?13:50
paulsherwoodwrt the above, yes but i don't think i'm succeeding (in either forum)13:51
gunnarxyes :) that sounds like an important consideration13:51
gunnarxI thought I saw Walt online?13:52
gunnarxdon't see him now...13:52
paulsherwoodyes he was13:52
paulsherwoodanyway time is passing...13:52
paulsherwood= AOB =13:52
paulsherwood?13:52
klausbirkenNo AOB from here…13:53
paulsherwoodfrom my pov, ELCE is approaching... are there any engineer attendees who would be willing to join the automotive collaboration panel?13:53
gunnarxI'm likely not attending I'm afraid... :(13:53
paulsherwoodshucks13:53
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gunnarxThe LF fees are too high.  There I said it.13:54
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pavelkpaulsherwood: I plan to go to elce.  What is the subject for the panel?13:54
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paulsherwoodview from the trenches on software collaboration in automotive13:54
paulsherwoodgunnarx: i think genivi fees are just as high? :)13:55
paulsherwoodACTION: PS request panel members on list13:55
pavelkpaulsherwood: doom and gloom; does not work that well if you ask me :-(13:55
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paulsherwoodpavelk: i'm reaching the same conclusion lately, tbh. are you interested to take that discussion at the conference?13:56
gunnarxmaybe, I haven't checked the GENIVI fees.  Me+colleagues attendance is included in membership fee.13:56
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paulsherwoodgunnarx: ack13:56
* paulsherwood has a plane to catch... ao aob?13:56
pavelkpaulsherwood: don't know yet, let's discuss offline13:56
gunnarxnot from me13:56
paulsherwoodpavelk: ok, will do13:56
pavelknothing from me13:56
paulsherwoodok, thanks all13:57
paulsherwood== GENIVI Tools Team Meeting Ends ==
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