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paulsher1ood== GENIVI Tools Team Meeting Starts ==14:00
paulsher1oodhi folks14:00
gmacarioHi there!14:01
paulsher1oodi've opened the webex line if folks are interested...14:01
paulsher1oodhttp://genivi.webex.com should give you a link14:01
CTtpollard;Q14:01
paulsher1oodgmacario: are you back in europe now?14:02
* CTtpollard apologises 14:02
gmacarioYes I am14:02
gunnarxcalling in14:02
* paulsher1ood hopes he dialled the right number... he seems to be alone on the call14:02
* paulsher1ood can hear gunnarx 14:03
waltminerthere is a call? I thought it was still IRC only14:03
paulsher1oodwaltminer: we'll document here, so you don't need to call in if you prefer not to14:03
gmacarioI have troubles dialing in, will stay in IRC only14:03
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waltminerI am on another call14:03
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paulsher1oodthat's a couple of reasons for preferring irc meetigns14:04
klausbirkenHi14:04
paulsher1oodhi klausbirken !14:04
paulsher1oodi'm sorry the F2F for tools team got completely derailed...14:04
waltminerkooltux_ are you having a problem with the audio?14:05
klausbirkenwhy? haven't looked for minutes yet14:05
paulsher1oodi ended up in discussions about  AGL at the alotted tim14:05
paulsher1oodtime14:05
paulsher1oodand those discussions were a bit disappointing i must say14:05
paulsher1oodanyways...14:06
paulsher1oodmy pre-agenda...14:06
klausbirkenshould we call in on webex audio?14:06
paulsher1oodklausbirken: you are welcome to... but i'm typing as fast as i can14:06
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paulsher1ood== Merge of BIT and Tools Team ==14:07
paulsher1ood(no decision has been made... just discussion/thinking)14:07
gunnarxphilrob says the above ^^14:07
gunnarxpaulsher1ood:  I can help out  scribing some notes from the audio call14:08
paulsher1oodphilrob summarises that bit tends to increase activity at baseline release times14:08
paulsher1oodgunnarx: tvm14:08
gunnarxphilrob says, BIT has in the past worked on various topics related to requirements and execution of both GDP and automated tests14:09
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gunnarxphilrob says, AFAIK the TT does not really provide project management right now.  TT is better working on requirements / sharing?  It's an open question - please provide input14:10
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gunnarxpaulsher1ood says, similar people attend the two team meetings14:11
gunnarxpaulsher1ood says, TT have been successful encouraging more work in the open14:12
gunnarxpaulsher1ood says, wondering is there additional BIT work that we can get in the open.14:13
gmacariopaulsher1ood: Do you have specific ideas in mind? AFAIK main BIT deliverables (i.e. Baselines) are already in the open14:14
jeremiahAnd much of the BIT work is project managment, i.e. managing the releases and point releases.14:15
gunnarxpaulsher1ood says, if we have some combination we want to make sure we can work openly14:15
jeremiahIn what way is it not open?14:16
gunnarxphilrob says, , there should not be that much private in BIT14:16
gunnarxjeremiah:  agreed, that's the sentiment on the call right now14:16
paulsher1oodits proceedings are documented in private (more for historical reasons) and its meetings are not held in the open iiuc14:16
gunnarxgunnarx says, In my opinion key deliverable from BIT is the baseline, the rest is a bonus.14:17
paulsher1oodthe results of BIT (baselines, GDP) have been made public consistently over several years14:17
gmacariogunnarx: +114:17
jeremiahgunnarx: +114:17
gunnarxgunnarx says, other deliverables (GDP, automated testing) need to be included in a combined group14:18
gunnarxpaulsher1ood says, GDP is a key deliverable14:18
paulsher1oodGDP ccould and should be considered a key deliverable too :)14:18
gunnarxgunnarx says +114:18
jeremiahI don't think there is anything blocking the BIT from publishing its minutes on the public wiki if that was wanted.14:18
philrob++114:18
jeremiahpaulsher1ood: But much of that is being done *outside* of the BIT (i.e. GDP)14:19
jeremiahGDP gets reported into PMO14:19
paulsher1oodtrue14:19
gunnarxjeremiah:  we do some baseline planning related to the compliance aspect of baseline.  This part is a GENIVI internal meeting.  The result is published as part of meta-ivi however14:19
jeremiahAnd we're not getting open minutes from there either.14:19
philrobGDP reported to PMO because of the BIT leadership position only14:20
jeremiahUmm, okay.14:20
jeremiahThat's a little weird to be noting after there have been two releases coordinated via PMO, but okay.14:20
jeremiahIt makes sense that the GDP comes into the BIT.14:21
philrobno, it is not weird, it was just a countermeasure to get prepared for Seoul AMM14:21
gunnarxpaulsher1ood says, in order to get more adoption of for example CommonAPI / Franca they should be more discussed / promoted in the context of baselines and other systems14:21
philrob+114:21
klausbirken+114:22
jeremiahI don't think that more discussion will make a difference frankly.14:22
jeremiahMany companies know about Common API and some choose not to use it.14:22
paulsher1oodjeremiah: show me the code :)14:22
jeremiahpaulsher1ood: Show me the code. :-)14:22
jeremiahShow me someone who doesn't know about CAPI and Franca14:23
paulsher1oodnoted14:23
gunnarxpaulsher1ood, what's next step in discussing BIT/TT join14:23
gunnarxdiscussing if there are any conflicts or problems...14:25
paulsher1oodBIT discussion of planning for compliance could not be conducted in public, the rest could14:25
jeremiahpaulsher1ood: +114:26
gunnarx+1, not setting GENIVI policy here, just this is the current working model.  All artifacts are open.14:26
jeremiahYep, and we can publish minutes publicly.14:26
gunnarxmeta-ivi input could be received, discussed and acted upon as a normal public project.  meta-ivi processes for the actual code is to receive public patches.14:28
gunnarxI am saying baseline is one thing, meta-ivi could be _more_ than that (using branches), completely up to meta-ivi maintainer14:28
paulsher1oodnext step would be to propose a revised charter (not on irc)14:29
jeremiah:-)14:29
gunnarxpaulsher1ood, philrob trying to work out what next steps are...14:30
jeremiahI think a charter that pointed to shared responsbility in the BIT would be a huge advantage for GENIVI14:30
jeremiahMight remove potential issues should maintainers be called into production projects for example14:30
paulsher1oodjeremiah: please could you expand on that?14:30
paulsher1oodoh, i see what you mean...14:31
jeremiahWell, we shouldn't have a singlye commiter14:31
gunnarxI don't.  Can you clarify, "shared responsibility in the BIT?"14:31
paulsher1oodso we could avoid a repear of the the sitaution where a maintainer goes AWOL14:31
jeremiahExactly.14:31
paulsher1oodleaving the project screwed for a few months14:31
jeremiahHaving mutliple parties able to commit will prevent a single point of failure14:31
gunnarxIt's not clear which project you're talking about.  Jeremiah said BIT, do you mean meta-ivi?14:31
jeremiahSorry, more meta-ivi than BIT14:32
gunnarxok.  +114:32
paulsher1oodi meant individual projects, yes, not BIT14:32
gunnarxpaulsher1ood says, action is on me and philrob?14:32
gunnarxagreed14:32
paulsher1oodACTION: paulsher1ood and philrob to consider revised charter?14:32
gmacarioWe should already have a similar requirements for Open Source Projects, right?14:32
jeremiahgmacario: Yep14:32
paulsher1oodcan we just re-use something from there?14:32
paulsher1oodshall we move on?14:33
gmacario+114:33
paulsher1ood== TT Collaboration with AGL ==14:33
gunnarxyes.  we try to require 2 maintainers as a sign of a healthy project14:33
gunnarxwhat tools are AGL envisioning?14:34
gunnarxany needs, requirements known so far?14:34
gunnarxpaulsher1ood, primarily it would be CIAT14:34
gmacarioAFAIK AGL is currently using Jenkins as CI tool14:34
gunnarxgmacario:  +1, also mentioned now in call14:35
* paulsher1ood has found that there is top-level resistance (from AGL) to actual collaboration between AGL and GENIVI14:35
jeremiahI think there automated testing set up using Jenkins and Ctest is something that we ought to look at.14:36
paulsher1oodso maybe this topic will die14:36
gunnarxI have also asked about this but I think it's hard - AGL wants to "move fast" (own words) and integrate their things14:36
paulsher1oodis anyone here interested to keep it alive?14:36
paulsher1oodwaltminer for example?14:36
gunnarxI fear organizations may need/want their own infra in order to guarantee availability and focus on their strategic parts.  Maybe.14:36
paulsher1ood(and their own people :-) )14:37
gmacarioIf we have a way of sharing investments I believe this is a good thing to try14:37
jeremiahgmacario: What do you see as "low hanging fruit"?14:37
gunnarxpaulsher1ood showed baserock CIAT.  AGL not using... Other several ideas around CIAT are brewing... so maybe come back to the topic later.14:38
gmacarioSetting up the same CI tool maybe14:38
paulsher1oodgmacario: in theory yes, in practice not so14:38
gmacarioWe as GENIVI do not have daily builds14:38
jeremiahgmacario: No does AGL.14:38
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jeremiahs/No/Nor/14:39
gmacarioWhat about https://build.automotivelinux.org/14:39
gunnarxgmacario, it only matters if we have the exact same server - so that anyone can input recipes that they want into that14:39
paulsher1ood'daily builds' is not necessarily the right way to do things14:39
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* paulsher1ood proposes to got to normal Tools Team business14:39
waltminerAGL is doing Jenkins builds on every propsed change and after every commit14:40
paulsher1oodandreas has no topics for today14:40
waltminerso it is not a “daily build”.14:40
gunnarx+1 it's more than builds - deployment, testing... Let me show you an idea at a later time.  I may write up an email since we want to move on.14:40
gunnarxwaltminer, understood.  I think we're trying to move on.14:40
waltminerok I just saw the topic.14:41
gunnarxnp walt14:41
gunnarxklaus says, Franca presentation update in Seoul.  Feedback?14:41
gmacariok.aus: I liked it as usual14:41
gunnarxphilrob says, we're missing some people who may have feedback.  can we postpone?14:41
paulsher1oodphilrob proposes to get feeedback next week14:41
gmacario+114:41
paulsher1oodmost people have not collected their thoughts sicne the AMM14:42
klausbirken1gmacario: thx14:42
gunnarxpaulsher1ood, let's collect up the topics now, get feedback next week14:42
gunnarx^^ paulsher1ood says14:42
paulsher1oodAOB for today?14:42
gunnarxgunnarx says,  klaus: are you using franca_install_automation for testing, any issues?14:44
gunnarxklausbirken1 says, will use it for testing again when next release is ready.14:44
gunnarxpaulsher1ood plugs the livecast of the baserock hands on14:45
gunnarxklaus says, link?14:45
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paulsher1oodhttps://t.co/V2pevEDynq14:45
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paulsher1oodgunnarx is proposing to show a demo of CIAT using gocd14:48
gunnarxhttp://go.cd14:48
paulsher1oodfor interested parties (via the webex)14:48
gunnarxIt's a tool I've fallen in love with :)14:48
* paulsher1ood proposes to close the TT meeting14:48
paulsher1ood== TT Meeting Ends ==14:49
paulsher1oodgunnarx will demonstrate CIAT pipelines using go.cd at gen
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