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Agenda

- Build Tools
- UML Modeling
- Debugging and Analysis
- Automated Testing
- AOB
- feedback from AMM
  - feedback from go.cd discussion last week 

 

paulsher1ood== GENIVI Tools Team Meeting Starts ==14:00
paulsher1oodgmacario: i believe gunnarx is working on documentation14:00
gmacarioAh, OK, so same comments about moving https://genivi-oss.atlassian.net/wiki/display/GRK/TT-minutes-20151102 as well14:00
gmacario(I searched unders TT and could not find it)14:01
* paulsher1ood hates confluence)14:01
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paulsher1oodanyway... are we all assembled?14:01
Bjoern_Cullmannhi14:01
KlausUhlHi14:01
paulsher1oodany additional items proposed for agenda?14:01
paulsher1ood(or changes)14:01
paulsher1oodhi folks14:02
pavelkfolks: hi Paul14:02
gmacarioHi all!14:02
paulsher1oodso first topic...14:02
philrobhi ! will attend until 3:30pm CET likely14:02
paulsher1ood- Build Tools -14:02
paulsher1ood(hopefully this will be short, today philrob)14:02
paulsher1oodany news/updates on Build Tools?14:03
gunnarxhi.14:03
paulsher1oodi guess the main update i'm aware of is gunnarx' proposal to consider go.cd - which i think could help genivi builds significantly14:04
gunnarxYes, hope to start discussing project launch on PMO tomorrow.14:04
paulsher1oodit's already in aob, but i'm happy to raise it here if there's nothing else for build in this meeting14:04
gunnarxappreciate the support14:04
gunnarxI have no more news, commonapi is stable in the franca_automation project14:05
gunnarxnext step might be to integrate persistence tool recently announced14:05
gmacarioCould anybody summarize the proposal about considering "go.cd"? Does anybody plan to setup a GoCD instance to build: meta-ivi, GDP, etc?14:05
paulsher1oodgunnarx: is there anything public you can share with gmacario wrt to go.cd?14:05
gunnarxI have limited bandwidth14:05
gunnarxgmacario, yes that's the idea14:05
gunnarxand any other build recipes can be added by the respective software component maintainers14:06
gunnarxidea is to grow build recipes gradually by contribution14:06
paulsher1oodgunnarx: 'next step might be to integrate persistence tool' into what, please?14:06
gunnarxContinuing above, integrate into https://github.com/gunnarx/franca_install_automation/14:06
gmacarioGreat! I am trying to do similar things with Jenkins - which is the tool we use at Mentor14:06
gunnarxwhich once it gets more features needs to be renamed to "SDK something"14:06
gmacarioSee https://genivi-oss.atlassian.net/wiki/display/~gmacario/Building+GDP+using+Jenkins+inside+a+container as an example14:07
paulsher1oodgunnarx: oh, ok. is  https://github.com/gunnarx/franca_install_automation/ becoming an official genivi project now?14:07
gunnarxno14:07
gunnarxjust an offer...14:07
paulsher1oodcould it be brought into something that is?14:07
gunnarxI don't see alternatives but would be happy to see it14:07
gmacarioWhat is missing from having gunnarx/franca_install_automation as a "standard GENIVI tools"? I am personally using it, provided bugfix and patches, and works quite well for me14:08
gunnarxI'm sure it could, as I've said before I think it has the building blocks of an SDK14:08
paulsher1oodok... and this team is the right place to adopt/promote that, then?14:08
gunnarxI presume so14:08
gunnarxI have limited bandwidth now - maybe TT can organize a wish list for features14:09
gunnarxand try to drive contribution14:09
paulsher1oodcould it maybe adopted by franca itself?14:09
gunnarxno it's too hacky14:09
gunnarx:)14:09
gmacarioMuch simpler: just create https://github.com/gunnarx/franca_install_automation/issues14:09
gunnarxKlaus uses it for his testing as far as I know14:09
paulsher1oodbetter than nothing, though14:09
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gmacarioAnd attach patches and/or PR as I did14:09
paulsher1oodi'm not against github. franca is already using it also :)14:10
gunnarxyup, gmacario is the man14:10
paulsher1oodany more for this topic (build tools)?14:10
gunnarxworking on weird stuff like Windows support, but who am I to not be happy about contributions ;-)14:10
paulsher1oodany actions?14:10
gmacarioOTOH I have nothing against moving that to http://git.projects.genivi.org/ is that will mean "more contributors" :-)14:10
* paulsher1ood guesses ACTION gunnar publish go.cd proposal14:10
paulsher1oodgmacario: i think you mean 'if that will mean...'14:11
gunnarxOh I see what you mean now about official project.  Well sure the code could move to git...genivi if that matters14:11
paulsher1oodi wonder if there's any real basis for choosing git.genivi.org over github.com?14:12
gunnarxbut I'd say it needs to take the first steps towards SDK features.14:12
gunnarxwho else in TT can take a look and suggest features?14:12
gmacarioMy point is: gunnarx did an excellent job of starting franca_install_automation, now if we want to make it an "official GENIVI" project, we should follow some process, shouldn't we?14:12
gunnarxthere is a process, yes14:12
gunnarxphilrob?14:12
paulsher1oodgmacario: agreed. i was thinking we could short-circuit that if franca upstream chose to import/adopt it14:13
philrobyes, there is a process, why do people still ask question on this ?14:13
paulsher1oodlol14:13
philrobnot so sure, Paul14:13
* paulsher1ood proposes to discuss this with klaus :)14:14
gmacariopaulsher1ood: Not sure what yyou mean, I believe franca_install_automation are two complementary tools14:14
gunnarxSo, let's keep working.  I'd like to see the first "SDK" features being added, then transfer it to official project14:14
gmacario... and franca14:14
paulsher1oodgmacario: you may be right. but i think making it a sub-project of franca would be better (given it's already described as franca-....)14:15
gunnarxthat's my proposal.  With SDK features I mean like = sysroot, compilers, debuggers, QtCreator, DLT viewer, d-feet, etc.14:15
gmacariopaulsher1ood: Do not quite agree, but let's ask Klaus opinion14:15
paulsher1oodack14:15
paulsher1oodACTION - discuss Franca/Franca_installation_automation relationship with kbirken14:16
paulsher1oodmoving on14:16
gunnarxok14:16
paulsher1ood- UML modeling -14:16
paulsher1oodany news/updates?14:17
manfred_yes14:17
manfred_the approvement had been signed14:17
gunnarxwhoa14:17
gunnarxUML is now approved?14:17
gunnarx:)14:17
manfred_so I can OSS methodology, toolbox and the JScripts for EA14:17
gmacarioLOL14:17
gunnarxah14:17
paulsher1oodmanfred_: great!14:18
manfred_the Franca UML methodology. just a small part of UML14:18
gunnarxAnything that needs Eclipse?14:18
manfred_so someone should direct me where to place the metamodel. proposing some SVN repo which can be used to have shared access like we do it with the GENIVI model itself14:18
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* paulsher1ood wonders if git can be used, instead?14:19
manfred_gunnar: no, just EA metamodel and its contents.14:19
Bjoern_Cullmanni think we just need to inform joel to create a new repo - but if you want to have it publicly available, we need to test the open git stuff first14:19
gunnarxdang, so no pull-requests to my project then :)14:19
manfred_yamaica 0.15 release still on its way through the door. obviously the doors had been a bit too narrow...14:19
paulsher1ood:)14:19
gunnarxdefine "test the open git stuff"14:20
gunnarxplease :)14:20
manfred_paul: git is not supported by EA, so that would not be preferred choice.14:20
Bjoern_Cullmannwait a minute manfred14:20
gmacarioAFAIK GENIVI has no public SVN servers14:20
pavelkmanfred_: what kind of EA metamodel is this?14:20
Bjoern_Cullmanndo we talk about hosting of the methodology, so that it can be linked via the EA?14:21
Bjoern_Cullmannor what are we talking about right now?14:21
manfred_björn: this approval also covers the FV Jscript patches I´ve created.14:21
paulsher1oodmanfred_: really? why does EA care about the vcs?14:21
Bjoern_Cullmannso the scripts are just a patch for the FV. But the methodolody should be server-hosted, right?14:21
manfred_we talk about the EA2Franca metamodel itself, including the tools as JScripts etc14:22
paulsher1oodphilrob: i note time is passing... do you have any things you want us to raise before you go?14:22
* gunnarx is wondering if we should just wait until the code is visible...14:22
paulsher1ood+114:22
philrobnothing at this point14:22
paulsher1oodok.14:22
gmacariomanfred_: Do you have an early Release Note for Yamaica 0.15?14:22
gmacarioWith list of plugins and version dependencies14:22
Bjoern_Cullmannahh, okay. well then it is an internal svn i guess.14:23
manfred_just from snapshots gianpaolo14:23
gmacarioI asked Juergen Gehring at the AMM but have not yet received an answer14:23
paulsher1oodany more discussion on UML modeling? any actions?14:23
manfred_björn: external SVN would be preferred if we have something like this14:23
Bjoern_Cullmannwe don't afaik14:23
manfred_whom do I need to talk to to organize release?14:24
gunnarxsame as always manfred_14:24
gunnarxyou should know it by now :)14:24
manfred_just want a refresh ;D14:24
Bjoern_Cullmannwe could so some funny stuff an store a svn repo in a git repo :- )14:24
gunnarxJust email Philippe R, he should set you straigh14:24
manfred_ok14:25
philroboj14:25
philrobok14:25
* gunnarx throws up in the wastebin14:25
gunnarxI'm fine now!14:25
gunnarxsvn in git, whatever works :)14:25
paulsher1oodlet's move on?14:26
Bjoern_Cullmanngunnarx: You need to learn that an "EXOTIC solution" is always best!14:26
gunnarxoh, just you wait, I have one in store.  paulsher1ood, I'm ready to move on.14:26
paulsher1ood- Debugging and Analysis -14:26
* paulsher1ood notes that this topic needs more TLC14:26
gunnarxon this topic A DLT viewer is nice to have in an SDK right?14:27
paulsher1oodyes. i would say that was the one request made to me wrt this topic at the AMM14:28
gunnarxI mentioned d-feet, what else is useful for debug/analysis.  there's loads in Linux of course, perf and friends, valgrind,14:28
gunnarxbut what do people use on a daily basis?14:28
gunnarxactually maybe little point in trying to anticipate, just let people install packages....14:29
paulsher1oodi think that GDP could usefully include such tools14:30
paulsher1oods/such/some such/14:30
gunnarxgood point, many of what I mentioned must run on target14:31
* gunnarx thinks response time is up. moving on?14:31
paulsher1oodyup14:31
CTtpollardI'd be happy to see tools added to gdp14:31
paulsher1ood:-)14:31
gunnarxwhoa, CTtpollard.  OK, so what is highest priority?14:32
CTtpollardseems like the most sensible place for such tools to live14:32
paulsher1oodCTtpollard:  maybe the wayland debug stuff?14:32
CTtpollardas well as their own standalone repo's ofc14:32
gunnarxah, you mean the build recipes14:32
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gunnarxisn't there some meta-tools ...14:33
CTtpollardyes meta-devtools14:33
paulsher1oodanyways.. moving on14:33
paulsher1ood- Automated Testing -14:33
paulsher1oodany news/updates here?14:33
gunnarxwaiting for ciat infra :)14:34
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paulsher1oodagreed :-)14:35
paulsher1oodanyone else?14:35
paulsher1oodgunnarx: maybe you can summarise what you see as the next steps for CIAT (or whatever you intend to call it now :-))14:35
gunnarxalready did14:36
gunnarxas you know, there is some groundswell support, not only my thing14:36
paulsher1oodgunnarx: i'm aware... just seeking a short summary for public consumption14:37
gunnarxI'm presenting a proposal at PMO tomorrow - it's a new project approach, and a new technical approach.  The analysis argues that the project approach and goals is best met by GoCD being the technical approach14:38
gunnarxThen we'll see where it goes.  BoD might need to be at least informed first ;)14:38
paulsher1oodmy understanding is the broad idea is to seek community sponsorship, multi-party approach... to avoid this being too big a commitment for any one organisation14:38
gunnarxyes14:38
philrob+114:39
* paulsher1ood is supportive of this concept14:39
gunnarxAccording to this proposal, we're going with GoCD as I said because it fits, and is technically good14:39
paulsher1oodshould reduce bottlenecks and increase collaboration14:39
gunnarxThis is different from AGL, but I've been told here the current Jenkins was a quick fix14:39
gunnarxOf course we hope to unite automotive ecosystem as a whole if possible.14:40
paulsher1oodGoCD does seem like a good choice, similar to (but more mature than) concourse14:40
gmacarioCan anybody comment about company support of GoCD as we speak?14:40
gunnarxmeaning, I'd recommend AGL to do similar and/or we create some joint thing (well, evaluate first of course)14:41
gunnarxgmacario: Jenkins is more popular14:41
gunnarx(so far) I suspect GoCD will grow because it's awesome14:42
gmacarioSo the plan is to kick off a SOW for implementing GoCD?14:42
gunnarxsomething like that14:42
philrobit has to be a community work, replace sow by workplan14:43
gunnarxcommunity sponsorship, multi-party approach, paul has described it right14:43
gmacariophilrob: You mean "self-funded", not GENIVI sponsored work?14:43
philrobyeap14:43
gmacarioWell why if CIAT is a high prio topic?14:44
philrobIMHO community can be very reactive14:44
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paulsher1oodgmacario: i've previously tried quite hard to promote joint collaboration with AGL. while I believe there is broad engineer-level support for that in both communities, Dan Cauchy seemed strongly opposed when I spoke with him at the GENIVI AMM14:44
gunnarxgmacario: it will be easier to understand soon.  we will succeed in scaling this up quickly.  test server is already up and running.  the actual build scripts should  be input by component owners anyhow14:44
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gunnarxso there isn't that much engineering work required, that's the point14:45
paulsher1oodany more on this topic?14:45
philrobthis is why community can be reactive14:45
gunnarxyep14:46
gmacarioI am not familiar with GoCD but still believe that  managing the infrastructure, installing plugin and developing scripts is not a zero-effort work14:46
gunnarxwho said it was zero effort?  what are you talking about?14:46
gunnarxwhat work is "zero" effort!?14:47
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gmacariogunnarx: Thanks for clarifying your previous statement "so there isn't that much engineering work required"14:49
gunnarxappreciate your concern for how to get this rolling gmacario, but with yours and others support we will succeed I'm sure14:49
gmacarioI am all for moving things forward, but just wanted to understand whether there was an idea for GENIVI BoD to fund this work. It seems not anyway14:50
gunnarxit won't be needed to get it started.  For long term maintenance we will see.  I think that's as far as we get at the moment.14:50
paulsher1oodshall we move on? one more topic14:51
gmacarioOK14:52
gunnarx3,2,1,...14:52
gunnarxgo!14:53
paulsher1ood- AMM Feedback -14:54
paulsher1oodany/14:55
paulsher1oodany?14:55
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gunnarxfantastic14:55
pedroalvarezheh14:55
gunnarxmany of us have given feedback in other forums14:56
paulsher1oodok14:56
gunnarxor do people say "fora"? :)14:56
paulsher1oodfora14:56
gunnarxyou snob14:56
gunnarxjk14:56
paulsher1oodi must apologise for messing up the TT F2F in Seoul14:57
rjekfora and formulae :)14:57
gmacariogunnarx: "fora" in Piedmontese means "out": https://pms.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenga_piemont%C3%A8isa14:57
paulsher1oodi ended up double-booked, and chose to prioritize meeting AGL representatives for the first hour14:57
paulsher1oodunfortunately those discussions did not work out well, as i mentioned above14:58
gunnarxso it was a bad tradeoff14:58
gunnarxyou can never know :)14:58
paulsher1oodindeed it was. i hope to learn from this mistake14:58
gunnarxthere's a lingua piemonteisa?  learned something new today.  sorry off-topic14:58
paulsher1oodwhen i returned to the allotted venue, only four people were still seeking to participate in the proposed meeting14:59
paulsher1oodthey were the folks who requested more info/support about DLT in this group14:59
gunnarxpeople are quick to judge and quick to leave.  fact of life.14:59
paulsher1oodack14:59
gunnarxpaulsher1ood, ok. good to knwo about DLT.15:00
paulsher1oodbut also this is a more general situation.... i'm awful at diary management these days15:00
paulsher1oodanyways... enough of my whining15:01
paulsher1oodany other AOB?15:01
gunnarxother sessions were more successful.  any more feedback on AMM?15:01
gmacarioWonder who is still in IRC who has not yet provided his AMM feedbacks in other meetings15:01
gmacario(I did it twice)15:02
* paulsher1ood notes this is the only *public* meeting?15:02
gunnarxpavelk maybe?15:02
gmacarioThat's why I provided my feedbacks in *private* :P15:02
paulsher1oodso a chance to highlight the positives :)15:02
pavelkI don't have anything really groundbreaking...15:02
gunnarxyour session went well15:02
gmacario+115:02
pavelkyes15:02
paulsher1oodi would say the event seemed very well attended overall15:03
gunnarxyes, it was.  everything went pretty smooth overall15:03
paulsher1oodand i heard that Murata-san's keynote was very good (but i was unable to attend it, since the baserock GDP hands-on happened at the same time)15:03
paulsher1oodanyways... we're over the hour....15:04
paulsher1oodi propose to close the meeting...15:04
paulsher1oodfolks are welcome to continue discussion as always15:04
gunnarxok bye15:04
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KlausUhlbye15:04
gmacarioBack to my (non-public) GENIVI stuff...15:04
paulsher1ood== GENIVI Tools Team Meeting Ends ==
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