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- Build Tools
- UML Modeling
- Debugging and Analysis
- Automated Testing


paulsherwood== GENIVI Tools Team Meeting Starts ==14:00
paulsherwoodhi all14:00
*** KlausUhl has joined #automotive14:00
paulsherwoodusual draft agenda
gunnarxlooks familiar...14:00
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paulsherwoodlast week's minutes
paulsherwoodfirst up - any proposed additions to agend or AOB today?14:01
gmacarioAgenda is OK to me14:01
paulsherwoodshall we begin? :)14:02
paulsherwood- Build Tools -14:02
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gunnarxA few new pull requests on franca automation.14:03
* paulsherwood notes that codethink did receive info from gunnarx and is expecting to contribute to the gocd pilot14:03
gunnarxcan you say again?14:03
gunnarxI sent you some info last week I think14:04
gmacariogunnarx: How about moving official franca_install_automation to - has the proces started?14:04
paulsherwoodthat what i said, gunnarx - you did your action14:04
paulsherwoodwe need to do ours now :)14:04
gunnarxah, ok.  hard to parse :)14:04
gmacarioMay I be forwarded same info about the gocd pilot?14:05
paulsherwood+1 on making franca_install_automation 'official'14:05
gunnarxgmacario:  Maybe it's time soon (franca auto).  I think I felt that we should take the first step towards SDK first14:05
gunnarxand the pull request workflow works well for us :)14:05
gmacarioSo who is owning the process of releasing franca_install_automation on
gunnarxWe are at the exact same stage as last time we discussed it though.14:06
gmacarioAnd who will be maintaining it?14:06
gmacarioCould I suggest to track this as a specific action - i.e. in some issue tracking tools?14:06
paulsherwoodgmacario: seems fair enough14:06
gunnarxI'll be happy to continue maintaining for a while.14:07
paulsherwoodi beleive we've agreed previously to standardise on jira for tracking here14:07
paulsherwoodgmacario: would you care to raise that ticket?14:07
gunnarxI'm happy to have more than one committer also for that matter.14:07
gmacarioif someone gives me the URL where should I create it - we have so many JIRAs out there14:07
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* paulsherwood hopes/believes that this should move to a 'proper' genivi url soon14:08
paulsherwoodthat's being tracked in pmo, though, not here14:09
paulsherwoodgmacario: tvm14:09
paulsherwoodany more on build tools?14:09
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gunnarxwe maybe should wait to see what manfred_ will publish...14:10
manfred_I increasingly get lost to manage all those locations to retrieve relevant information from14:10
paulsherwoodmanfred_: me too :)14:10
gmacarioFYI: just published a short HOWTO to easily run GDP inside VirtualBox:
gmacario(actually not just for GDP but for any Yocto-based images)14:11
gunnarx... if manfred_ soon coming tools affects strategy in any way.14:11
paulsherwoodgmacario: i saw that. my only question, is would it be better on the official gdp wiki?14:11
manfred_you got me gunnar ;D14:11
gmacarioI have also submitted a PR against the GENIVI Demo Platform to make it happen:
gunnarxno, I'm seriously suggesting TT should see if it affects something14:11
gunnarxI'm still not 100% sure if franca_automation overlaps Yamaica for example14:11
gmacariopaulsherwood: Well I did it for my own education, but if someone feels it relevant for the official GDP wiki I may submit a PR :-)14:12
paulsherwoodinteresting... who would be best able to answer that, gunnarx ?14:12
gunnarxbut maybe more choice is better, and I don't expect Yamaica to include QtCreator installation etc.14:12
gunnarxmanfred_ would14:12
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paulsherwoodgmacario: i think it's relevant - quite a lot of folks uses vbox after all14:13
paulsherwoodand it's a lower-friction startpoint than getting a devboard, for example14:13
gmacarioSo should I publish it under
manfred_yamaica installation uses franca installation + its own contents. so yamaica may build upon franca install automation as I understand14:13
gmacarioAs I expect is going to be phased out soon14:13
gunnarxgmacario, did you try this with GDP?  The page talks about core-image-minimal14:14
paulsherwoodgmacario: yes, i think so. jonathanmaw - do you know what the plan is wrt migrating gdp wiki to confluence? is there one?14:14
gmacarioIt will work as soon as is fixed14:14
gunnarxgmacario, yes, new topics are encouraged to go to the new Wiki for sure, I think you know that.14:14
gmacarioAnd it work on my private fork BTW14:15
paulsherwoodok, i'm itching to move to next topic14:15
paulsherwood- UML Modeling -14:15
gunnarxmany topics at once14:15
paulsherwoodgunnarx: that's one of the great things about irc :)14:15
gunnarxmanfred_, maybe we could take a little time to talk this through some day14:15
paulsherwoodgunnarx, manfred_ - maybe hang around aftert this meeting?14:16
gunnarxpaulsherwood, the whole wiki needs to migrate of course, what's special about GDP wiki?14:16
paulsherwoodgunnarx: only that it has quite a lot of content, i think :)14:16
* paulsherwood remains disappointed that there wasn't a script/automation for this14:17
paulsherwoodany advance on uml modeling?14:18
* paulsherwood notes that this was approx silent last week...14:18
paulsherwoodis it that the folks who are mainly leading this are not here recently?14:18
gunnarxpartly, yes14:19
paulsherwoodok, shall we move on?14:19
paulsherwood- Debugging and Analysis -14:19
gunnarxI would like pull requests, as I said last week :)14:20
paulsherwood"gunnarx I have nothing, still would take pull requests on "franca automation" for installing GDB support and similar"14:21
gunnarxyep.  similar = valgrind, linux dev tools, whatever already exists in eclipse world14:22
paulsherwoodi do think GDP would be improved by having some tools for debugging explcitly included (ideally optional)14:22
gunnarxon a related note configuration management in the eclipse universe seems mind boggling to me.14:22
paulsherwoodwschaller, jonathanmaw ^^ :)14:23
gunnarxI'm here to support, not that much work I think if we do it together.14:23
paulsherwoodgunnarx: i'm a commandline kinda guy14:23
wschallerpaulsherwood, just catching up, noted14:23
gunnarxuntil you break your arm14:23
paulsherwoodgunnarx: i'm back to pushups every morning, thanks for asking :-)14:24
gunnarxglad to hear it14:24
paulsherwoodok... shall we move on?14:24
paulsherwood- Automated Testing -14:25
paulsherwoodafaik there's not been any real progress on this in TT so far... jeremiah and collabora were discussing elsewhere iirc14:26
gunnarxI found this
gunnarxit's a very basic suggestion how to set up tests but that's all14:26
paulsherwoodit's a start! :)14:27
gunnarxyes definitely.  a framework14:27
paulsherwoodi note that there's been some work done integrating kernel tests into agl...14:27
paulsherwoodand it immediately exposed the question of what to do when most of them break...14:27
gunnarxdoes agl modify the kernel much14:28
gunnarxis it in combination with various weird bsps... what's breaking?14:28
pavelkgunnarx: it's mostly because of disable kernel config options14:28
gunnarxok, makes sense14:28
paulsherwoodright... but then the question is whether to enable the stuff (even though it may not be relevant for agl) or disable the tests, or what14:29
gunnarxmust be hard to do kernel testing I mean, if you disable a function you can't expect it to be there.  so your tests become only a reflection of your config.14:29
gunnarxdoes it add value?14:29
paulsherwoodone of the general blindspots i've noticed elsewhere is a tendency for folks to add tests without considering the cost/value of that14:30
paulsherwoodfor example in pursuit of some coverage goal, or because it's 'obviously better quality'14:30
pavelkiirc, the infrastructure that agl uses also allows for deliberate tests being added (not only to test the kernel)14:30
gunnarxok, good to know.  how about agl members jump into the meeting to add info like this?14:31
* paulsherwood is an agl member, doign his best :)14:31
pavelkthey invited other members to create such tests14:31
gunnarxthat's why the meeting is held here I thought14:31
paulsherwoodgunnarx: it's held here so we can all huddle together for warmth :)14:31
gunnarxnot really, I hardly feel alone.14:32
gunnarxmoving on?14:32
paulsherwoodgunnarx: well, the #genivi channel was never gardened properly14:32
gunnarxI'm fine with #automotive14:32
paulsherwoodgunnarx: before we move on... any thoughts/preferences on test infra approach for
paulsherwoodhave you seen any existing solutions to deal with devboards for example?14:33
gunnarxanything can be integrated. I think lava for target deployed tests is the consensus, haven't heard much else14:33
paulsherwoodi remain interested in
pavelkhow about ltsi framework?14:34
paulsherwoodbut recent experience shows that people seem to reject my choices, doubting my motives :)14:34
paulsherwoodpavelk: i believe agl is going with that14:35
pavelkpaulsherwood: yes14:35
gunnarxno haven't seen existing solutions but whatever infra you run you need an agent to powercycle, load, and start up a board14:35
gunnarxunless the board itself is the agent, might work too14:35
paulsherwoodgunnarx: yup14:35
paulsherwoodok, moving on then?14:35
paulsherwood- AOB -14:36
* paulsherwood has none this week14:36
* gunnarx has none14:37
paulsherwoodany others?14:38
gmacarioNone from me14:38
gunnarxwho would be interested in a targeted discussion on on-target testing?14:38
paulsherwoodi would14:39
gunnarxtarget on target on... hmm14:39
gunnarxI just feel we need to flesh out some details and get going.  are we waiting for anything in particular? :)14:39
paulsherwoodcontributions is the usual bottleneck :)14:39
gunnarxsure, I'm just looking for some building blocks really.  someone out there surely has experience I would have thought14:40
paulsherwoodno doubt14:40
paulsherwoodwe could canvas for a hangout or similar on this topic?14:41
paulsherwood(ie email the lists suggesting a virtual meetup, see how much interest we get)14:41
gunnarxI'm not much of a hangout guy, but yes, something similar :)14:41
paulsherwoodwell alternatives would be, skype, or ?14:42
gunnarxOne thing, how much of JTA is Jenkins and how much is other useful stuff I wonder.14:42
gunnarxtelco and webex :)14:43
paulsherwoodyes i suppose so :)14:43
paulsherwoodshall we do that?14:43
gunnarxyes, let's14:43
paulsherwoodwe could make it earlier in the day, see if we get different attendees14:44
pavelkare we talking about one of the next TT meetings?\14:44
pavelkah, something in addition...14:44
paulsherwoodpavelk: actually it could be that way... just announce that one of our meetings will include a session on on-target testing14:44
paulsherwoodwhich do folks prefer? something different, or extend a TT meeting?14:45
pavelkpaulsherwood: it would be good to drag the BIT folks into that14:45
* paulsherwood slightly favours the latter, but would like to move TT meetings earlier in the day14:45
paulsherwoodpavelk: ack14:45
pavelkI would prefer TT timeslot, possibly extended on the front or on the back14:46
paulsherwoodpavelk: not monday mornigns, then? ;)14:46
pavelkpaulsherwood: would work for me as well14:47
paulsherwoodok... i propose that we consider this properly, and cause a future TT meeting to be expressly extended to include this topic14:47
paulsherwood(probably a december meeting)14:47
paulsherwoodany -1 on this?14:48
* paulsherwood takes silence as approval14:48
paulsherwoodok, i'll raise that as an action.14:49
paulsherwoodany final AOB?14:49
paulsherwood== GENIVI Tools Team Meeting Ends ==
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