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klausbirken=== GENIVI Tools Team meeting starts ===09:00
klausbirkenHello all!09:00
klausbirkenAgenda:09:01
klausbirken* Time slot for this meeting during summer09:01
klausbirken* AMM presentation: preparation09:01
klausbirken* Follow up with tasks09:01
klausbirkenWho is participating?09:01
philrobHi, there !09:01
klausbirkenIt's quite quiet…09:02
philroblet us chat about the AMM preparation then09:04
klausbirkenIs anybody there? Should we start?09:04
klausbirkenphilrob: yes, ok09:05
philroblook at https://at.projects.genivi.org/wiki/display/WIK4/14th+GENIVI+AMM09:05
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philroband in particular at Thu 28 April, sessions located in Studio A&B09:05
klausbirkenok. the main session for TT is on Thursday, 16:30-18:3009:05
klausbirkenthere is an overlap of the TT session and the session "Towards Complete Embedded System Modeling and Generation" in Studio A&B09:06
philrobyes, and other sessions before TT will bring inputs for the topics discussed by the TT hopefully, including Klaus Uhl sessio09:06
klausbirkenI don't have any info on the Towards… session, but it seems that there could be some overlap.09:07
philrobno overlap in practice, the whole track schedule can be re-arranged slightly by participants09:07
KlausUhlHi, I have also seen the overlap an I am not really happy with it.09:07
philrobthere is not overlap, these sessions are sequential (I will check the schedule again)09:08
klausbirkenWe could shift the start of TT until Klaus Uhl is done, how about that?09:08
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gmacarioHi klaus I am in as well! Sorry for being late09:09
KlausUhlphilrob: I have not checked the schedule recently. Maybe you are right.09:09
philrobI would like to move K.Uhl session earlier in the afternoon (at 2pm) followed by the working session on Common API C++ following by the TT working session09:09
philrobdoes it make sense for you, guys ?09:09
klausbirken14:00 is the Franca session...09:10
klausbirkengmacario: never mind, welcome09:10
gmacarioWhich session are we talking to move? Which day?09:11
klausbirkenI am looking on the 28th April09:11
klausbirkenthe Studio A&B track09:11
philrobok then it is 2pm for Franca, 3pm for Towards Complete..., 3pm for Common API working session followed by TT09:11
gmacarioToo bad it overlap the SW Management & SOTA which I am also interested in09:12
gmacarioBut this is just my selfish comment09:12
philrobI cannot satisfy all constraints, sorry09:12
gmacarioUnderstood09:12
klausbirkenphilrob: works for me09:12
philrobok, let us switch to another topic for discussion at the TT session09:13
klausbirkenso working sessions will happen after the coffee break, CommonAPI WS first and then TT09:13
KlausUhlI am completely flexible as long as everything stays within the same track.09:13
klausbirken?09:13
philrobok09:14
KlausUhlI have just seen that my session is still scheduled for a complete hour. 30 minutes should be sufficient.09:14
klausbirkenthe only thing is that the TT working session will start quite late (17:30…), but we have to stuff everything into one afternoon.09:14
chbaeHi. Will you discuss about SCM tool in TT?09:14
klausbirkenchbae: you mean, the discussion around github?09:15
chbaeyes. github or gerrit ...09:15
philrobyes, but we can bundle likely common api C++ working session and TT in order to get started earlier (to be checked with Pavel)09:15
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klausbirkenphilrob: Ok, fine.09:15
klausbirkenchbae: I was not involved in that before, maybe gmacario can jump in?09:16
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gmacarioIf I remember correctly the TT session at AMM was a status update + a working session09:16
gmacariowhere we wanted to get requirements from participants who are not usually active in the team09:16
klausbirkenI think the status update has been moved into the general status session on Tuesday?09:17
gmacarioTherefore gerrit+github is definitely a topic for the working session09:17
gmacarioI am getting lost with the agenda at https://at.projects.genivi.org/wiki/display/WIK4/14th+GENIVI+AMM09:18
gmacarioNo Tuesday agenda there?09:18
philrobin addition, we would like to talk about testing based on the recent work published by Tolkien on the testing of common api c++ runtime09:18
gunnarxchbae, you know GENIVI will use github right?09:18
chbaeI just guess but I'm not sure.09:18
gmacarioFYI:  https://github.com/GENIVI - small but progressing09:19
gunnarxSo if someone wants gerrit, you need to work on that.  As gmacario and others pointed out, maybe a hosted service could be applicable09:19
klausbirkenlet's stick with the overall schedule first, please09:19
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klausbirkenphilrob: Should the TT status update happen on Tuesday or Thursday?09:19
jeremiahOHAI!09:19
gunnarxklausbirken, sorry if it was me - just catching up and commenting.  What topic are we on?09:19
chbaeYou mean that GENIVI's contribution will follow by github method (pull request)? or gerrit + github?09:20
klausbirkenCurrent topic: TT session(s) on AMM09:20
gunnarxchbae - finishing TT session first as klausbirken requested :)09:20
chbaeok. :)09:20
* jeremiah reads the logs to get up to speed09:20
klausbirkenFrom last TT meeting's minutes: "statuys on tuesday and working session on thursday and we cancel the git policy session?"09:21
klausbirkenWIth 4x +109:21
philrobthe status will be on Tuesday and you can choose to do a short status update on Thu, but I would recommend to jump into the discussion topics asap09:21
klausbirkenphilrob: Ok, fine.09:21
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gmacarioOK so the discussion should be about the TT goals and how to make them happen09:22
klausbirkenphilrob: Why is Tuesday not listed on the Jira page with the schedule?09:22
gmacariobased on whoever contributes09:22
philrobbecause Tuesady is member-only09:22
klausbirkenI see, thanks.09:22
klausbirkenNext topic: Content of the TT working session.09:23
jeremiahI would prefer to not cancel the git discussion09:23
gunnarxSCM tool?  :)09:23
jeremiahI can prepare material if that is needed.09:23
gunnarxhow do you mean cancel?  Is there a separate session on that, or is it part of TT session?09:24
philrobthe git discussion has to be part of the tt session IMHO09:24
klausbirkenWhich TT item is used to track the SCM tool discussion?09:24
jeremiahThere is a fair amount to disucss, I think: git branching strategies, GitHub migration, etc.09:24
* steve_l waves at TT09:24
jeremiahklausbirken: Good question, I don't know really.09:24
gunnarxklausbirken, there was an item to prepare the topic.  it might be closed now, let me check09:24
jeremiahklausbirken: Are you looking in the TT JIRA?09:24
klausbirkenjeremiah: yes09:24
jeremiahokay coo, I'll poke there too to try and find it.09:25
steve_lTesting could be a topic. We have some movement on that from BIT which could be input into TT09:25
jeremiahsteve_l:++09:25
klausbirkenWe could attach a label "AMM2016" to all jira items we want to bring up at the AMM.09:25
jeremiahI would really like to discuss testing as well09:25
klausbirkenIf there is something like labels there09:26
gmacarioAnd https://at.projects.genivi.org/jira/browse/TOOL-24 is still in analysis09:26
jeremiahklausbirken: Good idea, I think in fact there are labels09:26
steve_lTolkien (Yocto baseline maintainer) has just posted a new meta-ivi layer for testing.09:26
gmacarioTOOL-24 - Automated Test in CI09:26
philrobsteve l: I mention the testing topic earlier,09:26
steve_lAlso I have restarted the LAVA trail with Collabora09:26
gunnarxklausbirken, Preparatory work was done in:  https://at.projects.genivi.org/jira/browse/TOOL-62, now closed due to decision taken09:26
steve_lLAVA *trial* :)09:27
jeremiahSo can we use TOOL-24 as a container for "testing"?09:27
gunnarxThe actual execution of migration to github, I think jeremiah owns it and could create a ticket to track execution?09:27
jeremiahOr is it too specific? It looks like an integration ticket for Automated testing and CI09:27
klausbirkenWe have to separate discussions here: github/gerrit and testing09:27
jeremiahgunnarx: Yes, I'll do that now09:27
steve_lklausbirken: ok finish git :)09:28
jeremiahokay, let's stick to the "SCM and tooling" topic and then to to testing?09:28
gunnarxjeremiah: github migration should be done before AMM as far as I know.  Sure there might be some issues left to discuss but let's not delay anything on purpose until AMM discussion, agreed?09:28
jeremiahAgreed.09:28
klausbirkenWhich ticket is github migration?09:29
gunnarxsteve_l: patience grasshopper...09:29
gunnarxklausbirken, I already answered09:29
gunnarxPreparation: TOOL-6209:29
klausbirkengunnarx: I see, there is none yet for the actual execution.09:30
gunnarxDecision: No ticket, it is in the BoD minutes09:30
gunnarxExecution: No ticket. Jeremiah needs to create it09:30
klausbirkenSuggestion: Mark this ticket and all others relevant for the AMM with the tag Paris2016.09:31
jeremiahWill do, creating ticket now09:31
klausbirken(AMM2016 is not unique)09:31
jeremiahWhat does that mean? I shouldn't use AMM2016 as a tag?09:32
gunnarxklausbirken, can we discuss git tools now or are we still on AMM planning? :)09:33
klausbirkenWe should discuss it now - if there are other topics for the AMM, everybody can attach the tag and we check next week.09:33
gunnarxrename it?09:33
jeremiahhttps://at.projects.genivi.org/jira/browse/TOOL-6909:33
gunnarxOK, assuming "it" means git tools...09:34
KlausUhlI need to leave. Bye!09:34
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klausbirkenNo, we should use the tag "Paris2016" instead, because AMM2016 will be duplicated in autumn.09:34
klausbirkengunnarx: yes: "it" means git tools09:34
gunnarxchbae, I don't think we should talk long now but. I can answer the question.09:34
gunnarxFirst, all repos shall move to Github.  Therefore fork/pull-request process will be available to all projects.09:35
gunnarxThen, if some project (or tool team consensus) want Gerrit, you must work for it.09:35
gunnarxOne thing was clear from Board decision and that was the idea of outsourcing this stuff, so GENIVI hosting its own Gerrit would need a strong case.  I'm not saying it's not possible.09:36
gunnarxgmacario and others have pointed out that there are outsource solutions for most things, including gerrithub for example.09:36
gunnarxThat's all I have, hope it makes sense.09:36
klausbirkenAny remarks on the github plans?09:37
klausbirkenSo let's move on to the next topic...09:38
klausbirkenjeremiah mentioned TOOL-24 and testing, should that be discussed at the AMM, too?09:39
steve_lyes would be good09:39
jeremiahI think that it would be really useful.09:39
klausbirkenOk, I will tag it.09:39
philrob+109:39
jeremiahI don't know if it is already going to be discussed in the BIT readout as well, but can we discuss the meta-ivi tests in the TT meeting?09:39
philrobthis is the plan09:40
jeremiahI think it may be useful to understand how to connect them to the CI and Go.CD09:40
gunnarxPlanned for BIT readout09:40
steve_ltolkien has pushed a meta-ivi test layer that pulls in pkgs needed for testing and documented how to use in wiki.09:40
jeremiahSo can we add Tolkien to the TT meeting on Thursday?09:40
philroband to follow up with a discussion in the TT IMHO09:40
gunnarxif I understood previous discussion today, right Steve?  Tolkien will introduce it?09:40
steve_lNeeds a general call for EGs and members to get involved and help build out the test cases.09:40
gunnarxYes we can talk integration in the TT session Jeremiah09:41
steve_lNo harm in mentioning it in multiple sessions to get word out09:41
jeremiahYeah, exactly. Great.09:41
jeremiahsteve_l: Will you attend the TT sessions? I assume yes.09:41
philrobTolkien cannot attend physically, Steve L could perhaps introduce the topic in the TT09:41
steve_lshould do. Not checked schedule yet..09:41
klausbirkenIs there a ticket for this, too (meta-ivi test layer)?09:42
steve_lNo ticket09:42
jeremiahsteve_l: You may have to be the owner of the meta-ivi testing info if Tolkien is not around. :-)09:42
jeremiahIs that possible/09:42
jeremiah?09:42
steve_lI can try.. but its not my s/w09:42
jeremiahI'm happy to help prepare stuff09:42
jeremiahWe can re-use whatever Tolkien produces for the BIT09:42
jeremiahDiscuss your LAVA work09:43
jeremiahThen put out for discussion how to integrate09:43
jeremiahInto CI and automated testing09:43
jeremiahThat would likely be a half an hour right there09:43
steve_lyes its just one part of the puzzle09:43
jeremiahSo should you and I own the testing discussion in Paris for a half an hour in the TT sessions?09:44
gmacarioBy the way speaking about JIRA labels it looks like there was already a "14th_amm" :-(09:44
klausbirkenAccording to current plans, we have 2h in common for the TT and the CommonAPI working sessions.09:44
steve_lcan try to facilitate :)09:45
klausbirkenWe have to sync with Pavel to find out how much time is actually needed for CommonAPI. Maybe we can also extend the session (it is the last on this day) to cover all topics.09:45
gunnarxJust step in and unify the labels, how hard can it be09:45
philrob2:30 if Klaus delivers his talk in 1/2h09:45
philrobKlaus Uhl, I meant09:45
klausbirkenphilrob: I will sync with Klaus Uhl and Pavel and give you an update, ok?09:46
philrobfine09:46
gmacario+gunnarx: Right just wanted to point this out to the others09:47
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gunnarxyep09:47
gmacarioI also could not remember toscalix already defined this label exactly for such purpose09:47
klausbirken1Sorry, lost the connection.09:47
klausbirken1gmacario: We can sort this out offline. It is only important that one such label exists.09:48
gmacarioThis is "14th_amm", already done09:48
klausbirken1Ok, fine.09:48
klausbirken1Any other topics for today?09:48
gunnarxYes, I just checked 14th_amm is what all topics use now09:49
gmacariogunnarx: Could you please review and comment TOOL-61 and TOOL-66?09:49
steve_lklausbirken1: not from me09:49
gmacarioWhenever you like of course09:50
klausbirken1So I start the "final countdown"…09:50
gunnarxgmacario, ok will do.09:50
klausbirken1509:50
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gunnarxklausbirken1, quick update on Go09:51
klausbirken1gunnarx: OK09:51
* steve_l thanks klaus now I have that music in my head09:51
gunnarxSo just want to mention to gmacario that there is some improvement on Docker builds in Go community09:51
gmacarioGood to know09:51
gmacarioDo you plan on upgrading go.genivi.org then?09:52
gunnarxBut we still need to sit down and sort out how to do it securely.  Currently agents are containerized already, so launching another container to do the build means09:52
gunnarxmeans launching docker-in-docker, or doing it as a sibling09:52
gunnarxthe latter I feel is insecure.   However others reported having done it with docker-in-docker09:52
gunnarxIf the build machine is a dedicated one (or a full virtual machine) then allowing the user to launch containers should be fine09:53
gmacarioYes this is what https://github.com/gmacario/easy-genivigo does09:53
gunnarxSummary is I'm somewhat optimistic but we have a bit mismatch with the current go.genivi.org model which is to run long-lived agents vs. the new more flexible on-demand thinking09:53
gmacarioFYI Jenkins is moving to the same model09:54
gunnarxI know they are, but all I have seen so far seems to assume that you have a dedicated build machine.  It just trusts the containers09:54
gunnarxI don't think that's feasible.  That's the mismatch, if you want to allow go-agents on a host that also does other things...09:55
gunnarxOK I think that's it.  I need more thinking time and/or discussion time and probably not here nad now.09:55
klausbirken1gunnarx: Ok.09:55
klausbirken1Now the countdown - see you next week.09:55
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jeremiahwait!!09:56
jeremiahheh, just kidding09:56
klausbirken1Well....09:56
klausbirken1509:56
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gunnarxstart over at 509:56
jeremiahlol09:56
gmacarioBye!09:56
gunnarx:)09:56
klausbirken1== GENIVI Tools Team Meeting Ends ==09:57
   
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