| klausbirken | === GENIVI Tools Team meeting starts === | 09:00 |
|---|---|---|
| klausbirken | Hello all! | 09:00 |
| klausbirken | Agenda: | 09:01 |
| klausbirken | * Time slot for this meeting during summer | 09:01 |
| klausbirken | * AMM presentation: preparation | 09:01 |
| klausbirken | * Follow up with tasks | 09:01 |
| klausbirken | Who is participating? | 09:01 |
| philrob | Hi, there ! | 09:01 |
| klausbirken | It's quite quiet… | 09:02 |
| philrob | let us chat about the AMM preparation then | 09:04 |
| klausbirken | Is anybody there? Should we start? | 09:04 |
| klausbirken | philrob: yes, ok | 09:05 |
| philrob | look at https://at.projects.genivi.org/wiki/display/WIK4/14th+GENIVI+AMM | 09:05 |
| *** KlausUhl has joined #automotive | 09:05 | |
| philrob | and in particular at Thu 28 April, sessions located in Studio A&B | 09:05 |
| klausbirken | ok. the main session for TT is on Thursday, 16:30-18:30 | 09:05 |
| klausbirken | there is an overlap of the TT session and the session "Towards Complete Embedded System Modeling and Generation" in Studio A&B | 09:06 |
| philrob | yes, and other sessions before TT will bring inputs for the topics discussed by the TT hopefully, including Klaus Uhl sessio | 09:06 |
| klausbirken | I don't have any info on the Towards… session, but it seems that there could be some overlap. | 09:07 |
| philrob | no overlap in practice, the whole track schedule can be re-arranged slightly by participants | 09:07 |
| KlausUhl | Hi, I have also seen the overlap an I am not really happy with it. | 09:07 |
| philrob | there is not overlap, these sessions are sequential (I will check the schedule again) | 09:08 |
| klausbirken | We could shift the start of TT until Klaus Uhl is done, how about that? | 09:08 |
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| gmacario | Hi klaus I am in as well! Sorry for being late | 09:09 |
| KlausUhl | philrob: I have not checked the schedule recently. Maybe you are right. | 09:09 |
| philrob | I would like to move K.Uhl session earlier in the afternoon (at 2pm) followed by the working session on Common API C++ following by the TT working session | 09:09 |
| philrob | does it make sense for you, guys ? | 09:09 |
| klausbirken | 14:00 is the Franca session... | 09:10 |
| klausbirken | gmacario: never mind, welcome | 09:10 |
| gmacario | Which session are we talking to move? Which day? | 09:11 |
| klausbirken | I am looking on the 28th April | 09:11 |
| klausbirken | the Studio A&B track | 09:11 |
| philrob | ok then it is 2pm for Franca, 3pm for Towards Complete..., 3pm for Common API working session followed by TT | 09:11 |
| gmacario | Too bad it overlap the SW Management & SOTA which I am also interested in | 09:12 |
| gmacario | But this is just my selfish comment | 09:12 |
| philrob | I cannot satisfy all constraints, sorry | 09:12 |
| gmacario | Understood | 09:12 |
| klausbirken | philrob: works for me | 09:12 |
| philrob | ok, let us switch to another topic for discussion at the TT session | 09:13 |
| klausbirken | so working sessions will happen after the coffee break, CommonAPI WS first and then TT | 09:13 |
| KlausUhl | I am completely flexible as long as everything stays within the same track. | 09:13 |
| klausbirken | ? | 09:13 |
| philrob | ok | 09:14 |
| KlausUhl | I have just seen that my session is still scheduled for a complete hour. 30 minutes should be sufficient. | 09:14 |
| klausbirken | the only thing is that the TT working session will start quite late (17:30…), but we have to stuff everything into one afternoon. | 09:14 |
| chbae | Hi. Will you discuss about SCM tool in TT? | 09:14 |
| klausbirken | chbae: you mean, the discussion around github? | 09:15 |
| chbae | yes. github or gerrit ... | 09:15 |
| philrob | yes, but we can bundle likely common api C++ working session and TT in order to get started earlier (to be checked with Pavel) | 09:15 |
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| klausbirken | philrob: Ok, fine. | 09:15 |
| klausbirken | chbae: I was not involved in that before, maybe gmacario can jump in? | 09:16 |
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| gmacario | If I remember correctly the TT session at AMM was a status update + a working session | 09:16 |
| gmacario | where we wanted to get requirements from participants who are not usually active in the team | 09:16 |
| klausbirken | I think the status update has been moved into the general status session on Tuesday? | 09:17 |
| gmacario | Therefore gerrit+github is definitely a topic for the working session | 09:17 |
| gmacario | I am getting lost with the agenda at https://at.projects.genivi.org/wiki/display/WIK4/14th+GENIVI+AMM | 09:18 |
| gmacario | No Tuesday agenda there? | 09:18 |
| philrob | in addition, we would like to talk about testing based on the recent work published by Tolkien on the testing of common api c++ runtime | 09:18 |
| gunnarx | chbae, you know GENIVI will use github right? | 09:18 |
| chbae | I just guess but I'm not sure. | 09:18 |
| gmacario | FYI: https://github.com/GENIVI - small but progressing | 09:19 |
| gunnarx | So if someone wants gerrit, you need to work on that. As gmacario and others pointed out, maybe a hosted service could be applicable | 09:19 |
| klausbirken | let's stick with the overall schedule first, please | 09:19 |
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| klausbirken | philrob: Should the TT status update happen on Tuesday or Thursday? | 09:19 |
| jeremiah | OHAI! | 09:19 |
| gunnarx | klausbirken, sorry if it was me - just catching up and commenting. What topic are we on? | 09:19 |
| chbae | You mean that GENIVI's contribution will follow by github method (pull request)? or gerrit + github? | 09:20 |
| klausbirken | Current topic: TT session(s) on AMM | 09:20 |
| gunnarx | chbae - finishing TT session first as klausbirken requested :) | 09:20 |
| chbae | ok. :) | 09:20 |
| * jeremiah reads the logs to get up to speed | 09:20 | |
| klausbirken | From last TT meeting's minutes: "statuys on tuesday and working session on thursday and we cancel the git policy session?" | 09:21 |
| klausbirken | WIth 4x +1 | 09:21 |
| philrob | the status will be on Tuesday and you can choose to do a short status update on Thu, but I would recommend to jump into the discussion topics asap | 09:21 |
| klausbirken | philrob: Ok, fine. | 09:21 |
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| gmacario | OK so the discussion should be about the TT goals and how to make them happen | 09:22 |
| klausbirken | philrob: Why is Tuesday not listed on the Jira page with the schedule? | 09:22 |
| gmacario | based on whoever contributes | 09:22 |
| philrob | because Tuesady is member-only | 09:22 |
| klausbirken | I see, thanks. | 09:22 |
| klausbirken | Next topic: Content of the TT working session. | 09:23 |
| jeremiah | I would prefer to not cancel the git discussion | 09:23 |
| gunnarx | SCM tool? :) | 09:23 |
| jeremiah | I can prepare material if that is needed. | 09:23 |
| gunnarx | how do you mean cancel? Is there a separate session on that, or is it part of TT session? | 09:24 |
| philrob | the git discussion has to be part of the tt session IMHO | 09:24 |
| klausbirken | Which TT item is used to track the SCM tool discussion? | 09:24 |
| jeremiah | There is a fair amount to disucss, I think: git branching strategies, GitHub migration, etc. | 09:24 |
| * steve_l waves at TT | 09:24 | |
| jeremiah | klausbirken: Good question, I don't know really. | 09:24 |
| gunnarx | klausbirken, there was an item to prepare the topic. it might be closed now, let me check | 09:24 |
| jeremiah | klausbirken: Are you looking in the TT JIRA? | 09:24 |
| klausbirken | jeremiah: yes | 09:24 |
| jeremiah | okay coo, I'll poke there too to try and find it. | 09:25 |
| steve_l | Testing could be a topic. We have some movement on that from BIT which could be input into TT | 09:25 |
| jeremiah | steve_l:++ | 09:25 |
| klausbirken | We could attach a label "AMM2016" to all jira items we want to bring up at the AMM. | 09:25 |
| jeremiah | I would really like to discuss testing as well | 09:25 |
| klausbirken | If there is something like labels there | 09:26 |
| gmacario | And https://at.projects.genivi.org/jira/browse/TOOL-24 is still in analysis | 09:26 |
| jeremiah | klausbirken: Good idea, I think in fact there are labels | 09:26 |
| steve_l | Tolkien (Yocto baseline maintainer) has just posted a new meta-ivi layer for testing. | 09:26 |
| gmacario | TOOL-24 - Automated Test in CI | 09:26 |
| philrob | steve l: I mention the testing topic earlier, | 09:26 |
| steve_l | Also I have restarted the LAVA trail with Collabora | 09:26 |
| gunnarx | klausbirken, Preparatory work was done in: https://at.projects.genivi.org/jira/browse/TOOL-62, now closed due to decision taken | 09:26 |
| steve_l | LAVA *trial* :) | 09:27 |
| jeremiah | So can we use TOOL-24 as a container for "testing"? | 09:27 |
| gunnarx | The actual execution of migration to github, I think jeremiah owns it and could create a ticket to track execution? | 09:27 |
| jeremiah | Or is it too specific? It looks like an integration ticket for Automated testing and CI | 09:27 |
| klausbirken | We have to separate discussions here: github/gerrit and testing | 09:27 |
| jeremiah | gunnarx: Yes, I'll do that now | 09:27 |
| steve_l | klausbirken: ok finish git :) | 09:28 |
| jeremiah | okay, let's stick to the "SCM and tooling" topic and then to to testing? | 09:28 |
| gunnarx | jeremiah: github migration should be done before AMM as far as I know. Sure there might be some issues left to discuss but let's not delay anything on purpose until AMM discussion, agreed? | 09:28 |
| jeremiah | Agreed. | 09:28 |
| klausbirken | Which ticket is github migration? | 09:29 |
| gunnarx | steve_l: patience grasshopper... | 09:29 |
| gunnarx | klausbirken, I already answered | 09:29 |
| gunnarx | Preparation: TOOL-62 | 09:29 |
| klausbirken | gunnarx: I see, there is none yet for the actual execution. | 09:30 |
| gunnarx | Decision: No ticket, it is in the BoD minutes | 09:30 |
| gunnarx | Execution: No ticket. Jeremiah needs to create it | 09:30 |
| klausbirken | Suggestion: Mark this ticket and all others relevant for the AMM with the tag Paris2016. | 09:31 |
| jeremiah | Will do, creating ticket now | 09:31 |
| klausbirken | (AMM2016 is not unique) | 09:31 |
| jeremiah | What does that mean? I shouldn't use AMM2016 as a tag? | 09:32 |
| gunnarx | klausbirken, can we discuss git tools now or are we still on AMM planning? :) | 09:33 |
| klausbirken | We should discuss it now - if there are other topics for the AMM, everybody can attach the tag and we check next week. | 09:33 |
| gunnarx | rename it? | 09:33 |
| jeremiah | https://at.projects.genivi.org/jira/browse/TOOL-69 | 09:33 |
| gunnarx | OK, assuming "it" means git tools... | 09:34 |
| KlausUhl | I need to leave. Bye! | 09:34 |
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| klausbirken | No, we should use the tag "Paris2016" instead, because AMM2016 will be duplicated in autumn. | 09:34 |
| klausbirken | gunnarx: yes: "it" means git tools | 09:34 |
| gunnarx | chbae, I don't think we should talk long now but. I can answer the question. | 09:34 |
| gunnarx | First, all repos shall move to Github. Therefore fork/pull-request process will be available to all projects. | 09:35 |
| gunnarx | Then, if some project (or tool team consensus) want Gerrit, you must work for it. | 09:35 |
| gunnarx | One thing was clear from Board decision and that was the idea of outsourcing this stuff, so GENIVI hosting its own Gerrit would need a strong case. I'm not saying it's not possible. | 09:36 |
| gunnarx | gmacario and others have pointed out that there are outsource solutions for most things, including gerrithub for example. | 09:36 |
| gunnarx | That's all I have, hope it makes sense. | 09:36 |
| klausbirken | Any remarks on the github plans? | 09:37 |
| klausbirken | So let's move on to the next topic... | 09:38 |
| klausbirken | jeremiah mentioned TOOL-24 and testing, should that be discussed at the AMM, too? | 09:39 |
| steve_l | yes would be good | 09:39 |
| jeremiah | I think that it would be really useful. | 09:39 |
| klausbirken | Ok, I will tag it. | 09:39 |
| philrob | +1 | 09:39 |
| jeremiah | I don't know if it is already going to be discussed in the BIT readout as well, but can we discuss the meta-ivi tests in the TT meeting? | 09:39 |
| philrob | this is the plan | 09:40 |
| jeremiah | I think it may be useful to understand how to connect them to the CI and Go.CD | 09:40 |
| gunnarx | Planned for BIT readout | 09:40 |
| steve_l | tolkien has pushed a meta-ivi test layer that pulls in pkgs needed for testing and documented how to use in wiki. | 09:40 |
| jeremiah | So can we add Tolkien to the TT meeting on Thursday? | 09:40 |
| philrob | and to follow up with a discussion in the TT IMHO | 09:40 |
| gunnarx | if I understood previous discussion today, right Steve? Tolkien will introduce it? | 09:40 |
| steve_l | Needs a general call for EGs and members to get involved and help build out the test cases. | 09:40 |
| gunnarx | Yes we can talk integration in the TT session Jeremiah | 09:41 |
| steve_l | No harm in mentioning it in multiple sessions to get word out | 09:41 |
| jeremiah | Yeah, exactly. Great. | 09:41 |
| jeremiah | steve_l: Will you attend the TT sessions? I assume yes. | 09:41 |
| philrob | Tolkien cannot attend physically, Steve L could perhaps introduce the topic in the TT | 09:41 |
| steve_l | should do. Not checked schedule yet.. | 09:41 |
| klausbirken | Is there a ticket for this, too (meta-ivi test layer)? | 09:42 |
| steve_l | No ticket | 09:42 |
| jeremiah | steve_l: You may have to be the owner of the meta-ivi testing info if Tolkien is not around. :-) | 09:42 |
| jeremiah | Is that possible/ | 09:42 |
| jeremiah | ? | 09:42 |
| steve_l | I can try.. but its not my s/w | 09:42 |
| jeremiah | I'm happy to help prepare stuff | 09:42 |
| jeremiah | We can re-use whatever Tolkien produces for the BIT | 09:42 |
| jeremiah | Discuss your LAVA work | 09:43 |
| jeremiah | Then put out for discussion how to integrate | 09:43 |
| jeremiah | Into CI and automated testing | 09:43 |
| jeremiah | That would likely be a half an hour right there | 09:43 |
| steve_l | yes its just one part of the puzzle | 09:43 |
| jeremiah | So should you and I own the testing discussion in Paris for a half an hour in the TT sessions? | 09:44 |
| gmacario | By the way speaking about JIRA labels it looks like there was already a "14th_amm" :-( | 09:44 |
| klausbirken | According to current plans, we have 2h in common for the TT and the CommonAPI working sessions. | 09:44 |
| steve_l | can try to facilitate :) | 09:45 |
| klausbirken | We have to sync with Pavel to find out how much time is actually needed for CommonAPI. Maybe we can also extend the session (it is the last on this day) to cover all topics. | 09:45 |
| gunnarx | Just step in and unify the labels, how hard can it be | 09:45 |
| philrob | 2:30 if Klaus delivers his talk in 1/2h | 09:45 |
| philrob | Klaus Uhl, I meant | 09:45 |
| klausbirken | philrob: I will sync with Klaus Uhl and Pavel and give you an update, ok? | 09:46 |
| philrob | fine | 09:46 |
| gmacario | +gunnarx: Right just wanted to point this out to the others | 09:47 |
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| gunnarx | yep | 09:47 |
| gmacario | I also could not remember toscalix already defined this label exactly for such purpose | 09:47 |
| klausbirken1 | Sorry, lost the connection. | 09:47 |
| klausbirken1 | gmacario: We can sort this out offline. It is only important that one such label exists. | 09:48 |
| gmacario | This is "14th_amm", already done | 09:48 |
| klausbirken1 | Ok, fine. | 09:48 |
| klausbirken1 | Any other topics for today? | 09:48 |
| gunnarx | Yes, I just checked 14th_amm is what all topics use now | 09:49 |
| gmacario | gunnarx: Could you please review and comment TOOL-61 and TOOL-66? | 09:49 |
| steve_l | klausbirken1: not from me | 09:49 |
| gmacario | Whenever you like of course | 09:50 |
| klausbirken1 | So I start the "final countdown"… | 09:50 |
| gunnarx | gmacario, ok will do. | 09:50 |
| klausbirken1 | 5 | 09:50 |
| klausbirken1 | 4 | 09:50 |
| gunnarx | klausbirken1, quick update on Go | 09:51 |
| klausbirken1 | gunnarx: OK | 09:51 |
| * steve_l thanks klaus now I have that music in my head | 09:51 | |
| gunnarx | So just want to mention to gmacario that there is some improvement on Docker builds in Go community | 09:51 |
| gmacario | Good to know | 09:51 |
| gmacario | Do you plan on upgrading go.genivi.org then? | 09:52 |
| gunnarx | But we still need to sit down and sort out how to do it securely. Currently agents are containerized already, so launching another container to do the build means | 09:52 |
| gunnarx | means launching docker-in-docker, or doing it as a sibling | 09:52 |
| gunnarx | the latter I feel is insecure. However others reported having done it with docker-in-docker | 09:52 |
| gunnarx | If the build machine is a dedicated one (or a full virtual machine) then allowing the user to launch containers should be fine | 09:53 |
| gmacario | Yes this is what https://github.com/gmacario/easy-genivigo does | 09:53 |
| gunnarx | Summary is I'm somewhat optimistic but we have a bit mismatch with the current go.genivi.org model which is to run long-lived agents vs. the new more flexible on-demand thinking | 09:53 |
| gmacario | FYI Jenkins is moving to the same model | 09:54 |
| gunnarx | I know they are, but all I have seen so far seems to assume that you have a dedicated build machine. It just trusts the containers | 09:54 |
| gunnarx | I don't think that's feasible. That's the mismatch, if you want to allow go-agents on a host that also does other things... | 09:55 |
| gunnarx | OK I think that's it. I need more thinking time and/or discussion time and probably not here nad now. | 09:55 |
| klausbirken1 | gunnarx: Ok. | 09:55 |
| klausbirken1 | Now the countdown - see you next week. | 09:55 |
| klausbirken1 | 5 | 09:56 |
| klausbirken1 | 4 | 09:56 |
| klausbirken1 | 3 | 09:56 |
| klausbirken1 | 2 | 09:56 |
| jeremiah | wait!! | 09:56 |
| jeremiah | heh, just kidding | 09:56 |
| klausbirken1 | Well.... | 09:56 |
| klausbirken1 | 5 | 09:56 |
| klausbirken1 | 4 | 09:56 |
| klausbirken1 | 3 | 09:56 |
| klausbirken1 | 2 | 09:56 |
| klausbirken1 | 1 | 09:56 |
| gunnarx | start over at 5 | 09:56 |
| jeremiah | lol | 09:56 |
| gmacario | Bye! | 09:56 |
| gunnarx | :) | 09:56 |
| klausbirken1 | == GENIVI Tools Team Meeting Ends == | 09:57 |
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